The Pricing Mindset Shift Holding Hotels Back

if you get fully booked more than 30 days before arrival your price was too low especially from a numbers perspective point but i think that will be always the case if i had done this then this would happen and that's also the tricky part with revenue management because it always could have gone differently but you can only sell the room once welcome to the revenue playbook part of the future of hospitality my name is alonso kouri and today i'm joined by tim boozma revenue manager at runepress genie someone who works closely with independent hoteliers who want to grow revenue without losing control of their business now in this conversation we'll unpack the mindset shift that helps hotels move away from static pricing and toward confident data driven decisions we'll talk about the most common pricing mistakes independent hotels make where to start if revenue management feels overwhelming and which metrics actually matter so tim nice to have you as a guest really great to have you and welcome thanks for thanks for having me thanks for the invite and let's go forward with this one cool cool so before we start can you maybe share a little bit more about your background because now you work at runopress genie but beforehand you worked at some other places okay maybe tell a little bit more about about you yeah i my first connection with revenue management was actually as an intern i started as an intern to nih fun fact about this is that after my internship i said i will never work within revenue management anymore so i moved forward to finance did the finance internship stayed in finance for a while and actually afterwards i ended in my thesis after stopped for a little bit and the first linkedin message i got after i handed him a thesis like are you looking for a job i have a job in revenue management if you're interested let's have a conversation tomorrow and i was like yeah i need a job actually so then i came back into revenue management at vanderbilk afterwards i moved to intel so and actually almost three years ago so i moved to rumpragini so yeah i had a small journey within the revenue management in the metaverse market i have to ask you know what i have to ask right like why why did you hate it so much why did you say it like not for me revenue management yeah actually i think it was the worst timing to start within revenue management because actually when i started i think a little while later covid hit so actually there was almost nothing to do everyone had to work from home only had to make reports copy paste send them out and so on but actually nothing was moving forward so i think basically it was just the timing it was the timing to step into revenue management which didn't fit very well at that point but yeah i'm happy to be back that's a good answer that's a good answer covid is a good excuse so it's a good excuse for a lot of things exactly exactly so if you want to dive a little bit deeper into revenue management first of all also in regards to your experience about revenue management what is the most of course it changed in the years i guess but what is the most common challenge that you see that hotels have in regards to revenue management i think it depends a lot what kind of properties if i speak more about the properties i worked with in the last three years i think time and timing is a very big topic but also the like how close they are towards their own property and how how emotionally involved they are with their prices can be a very big obstacle for for a lot of smaller properties and mainly owner operator where you see that they struggling especially in undervaluing their product i think that's the most common thing you see and it's very hard for them to move away from that because they are emotionally very close towards the properties and getting the prices right in terms of timing and time i think time is the biggest challenge for most of them when do i need to do it i don't have time for this how much time should i invest all those questions are fair but there is a willingness to do it however you have to find a space for it yeah true but why do they undervalue it i would say maybe that's my instinct if it's my hotel then i think it's worth even more but how does it work pretty curious yeah i think that a lot of hotels are scared that they overpricing their property especially when they when they check in a guest and they have to to ask for the money or they have to ask for the check in that they are scared that they get a negative review or or something like that because they are heavily involved in everything i think that's something you see and as always comparing on pictures towards other properties but look at look how nice that looks how look how great it is and then we have our property which maybe doesn't have a spa so can we even ask that or we always had €110 and now we go to 150 so we can never go more so it's just maybe not afraid i know what you mean they have too much because they work in the industry so they have the knowledge of all the competitors they know this price is there a little bit cheaper and they offer kind of more so then they look at it from their own perspective that it's kind of maybe expensive if you yeah and i think also that they might think about would i pay for this myself yeah and i think that's that's a very tricky question especially when you when you get in your own hotel like 365 days a year that you see also the downsides of the property well if you stay only for two days you might only see the benefits or you might see the nice location and never think about oh that might be construction works three blocks away yeah that's a really good point yeah that you are too close to the elephant that you don't see the elephant kind of concept because you are in the hotel it's not an experience for you you don't say like wow what a nice lobby exactly and of course sometimes it's also the other way around that especially in the in the low season they are maybe slightly overvaluing or don't want to go lower because they found the property more worth more and actually it might be worth more as a as a general view but a market and a market circumstance and an area circumstance does a lot to pricing yeah because the property at the 1st of january or the 31st of january or december is actually still the same property and there might be the same sheets there might be the same products there might be the same people however there are a lot of external factors which are changing and i think that's very hard to see when you watching closely to the other that's for sure true because how do those independent more smaller hotels how do they do their pricing if they and they're not the revenue manager management expert like how do they do it just gut feeling or i think mostly is gut feeling for some of them is guts feeling for some of them it's like inflation on price compared to previous years i think there are steps made in okay we know that this season is already slightly better than this season so we can push up the price a bit and of course then there are the hotels which are [email protected] what do competitors do i think i think you fairly see that it's reacting towards a market on a short term so most likely it's going to be one month ahead maybe two maximum to to adjust prices towards a market that that's mainly the slightly shift you see when they don't have a revenue manager or don't have a revenue management system or so that's like one of the kind of the mistakes if i can call it like that that they can improve on but if you can maybe name some other kind of mistakes if i can call it like this that hotels make if they're not aware of revenue management best practices yeah i'm not sure if i wanted to call a mistake maybe a missed opportunity yeah exactly that's better actually there are quite a few things and i think especially it has more to deal with with a market and an area circumstance which is changing than the property itself yeah because at the end of the day if you look at the whole revenueman's perspective it's always the guest who decides what they're going to pay because they hit the bottom and they say okay i want to pay this amount for this property and it's not only the property which is deciding the value which is also like everything around so i think the very best example in the netherlands this case is sanford during the formula one the hotels don't change however the price is maybe doubled true so especially taking into consideration what are the market circumstances and what is actually the area circumstance is something hard to measure especially for properties which do everything manually true so i think that's very hard for them especially in terms of time because it takes it takes time and also finger speech and kvul at one point yeah true true but in regards to that's nice that you said the zandvoort formula one example like of course every year there are specific kinds of events that are kind of recurring but i guess there are also a lot of kind of dynamic events that that if you don't know what happens in the area then you don't know that there's a justin bieber i don't know why i said justin bieber sorry i could have said other actors but no not not really but but how did how how does it work with that like do you have to be as a revenue manager to to always know what happens in the area is that like if you if you are working revenue management i think that's your daily job as well to know what's happening in an area like a market most likely will reflect area circumstances so when you break it down you have area circumstances then you have a market response and then most likely a hotel will respond afterwards yeah however if the area circumstances are having a very big influence then it might be that you are too late to react to market circumstances true especially from a revenue manager perspective it's spotting those potentials increase before you have to follow that that's a very important topic in this case to to actually yeah foreseen what what's what's going to happen in those cases is it difficult yes because sometimes it's announced at 12 o' clock in the night and then the next morning your flea books yeah that potentially happen yeah that sounds really difficult yeah yeah so if we talk about for example because what you basically mean that revenue management should be more data driven instead of like gut feeling if i can say this correctly yeah i think there is a very big difference between especially when i look at my journey from beginning to end when spending time in finance which is purely data driven numbers are numbers and numbers are telling the story to big hotel chains where i think this is a fairly big impact because you're not emotionally involved within the property true but then shifting towards the smaller properties more or less i misunderstood when i just started how big the impact is of the emotional part of the hotelier because for me being a numbers guy making the translation because you see opportunities however there are roadblocks by emotional by emotional things and i think that's the most difficult part to make that shift because i think especially for the smaller properties let's call it smaller between brackets there are a lot of opportunities from a more data driven perspective but it's more in terms of how far are you willing to go on an emotional perspective to let those prices go to where they be can you give an example i think i think the biggest example is we have a we had a hotel in maastricht which was not willing to go over let's say a number €150 however we did know during andre rieux the concerts that market value of those rooms would be around 300 maybe €400 yeah wow and still they were not willing to go that high because of their motion of roadblock and we had the discussion we talked a lot and they said okay let's go to 200 and actually this sold out within minutes wow um and then afterwards he said okay maybe maybe i could go a little bit higher but it's also gaining that trust that if you if you are willing to go slightly higher you get a great response from your guest it gains trust as well to be a little bit more bold and brave next year exactly so i think that's that's a very step by step approach for a little bit the smaller properties if you move away from that you go to the investment funds and you go to the big change it's totally different and that makes working there and working with owner operators different very very different yeah for sure i get that sorry but also very interesting yeah that must be very interesting if it's more complex makes it also more interesting especially for a numbers guy yeah and i think it's also fair to say that they are protecting the value of their property in a sense and then for me or us it's it's to to show them that there is even with the protection they give it to the property and the care they put into the property they there is a higher platform or a higher price to sell for yeah and that's a very interesting approach towards those kind of properties yeah you kind of triggered me with the emotional part because basically that's where it begins it's not a rational conversation about what should be the price it starts with the mind shift that you have to you have to have the courage to kind of let's see if they would pay this amount right because because if it's fully booked after one minute then you could be happy you could say like it's fully booked but you could also say like ah i could maybe add another €50 per per night i i think that that last case will always be the case yeah because there was especially when you get fully booked and and we always say if you get fully booked more than 30 days before arrival your price was too low especially from a numbers perspective point but but i think that will be always the case if i had done this then this would happen and that's also the tricky part with revenue management because it always could have gone differently but you can only sell the room once true and then it's gone i mean you cannot sell the room from yesterday and that makes it slightly more difficult because you can never undo it or redo it yeah true true so what if it's always what if and there i think there's never going to be a perfect price yeah for sure depends on so many things you don't you don't always know also why somebody pays this or that you can guess maybe because it's because an event or whatever but you never really know what maybe you had like 30 customers or guests coming in that they are just have a little bit more money and they are in a good mood and they said let's pay it and i don't care you don't know and it can also be that it's a returning guest at one point which was like oh the price is slightly high but an amazing experience yeah true they are not coming from that event they just want to be there again true so you never get 100% truth however have a slightly more data driven background will at least give you more information what they have at the starting point yeah that's nice that's nice and for hotels that never did something with this never did just like we said in the beginning got feeling this was the price five years ago they maybe added like 5% each year i don't know like how why don't they do anything with revenue like what is the objection for them to start like does it feel overwhelming for them to do something like this there are many different road brokers in this case it can be time it can be overwhelming it can be under educated in terms of this sensitive area because at the end of the day it's quite a sensitive area because you talk about price and i think with the most people if you talk about money that's quite a sensitive point and also how we at least i see it is like especially when we change the price and when they change the prices they changing their own income because especially when they're the owner of the property it's their own result which is going to be on the line and i'm not sure if everyone trusts himself in order to play around with that at a certain point so i think there are multiple differences for some hotels also they just have a conclusion in their mind it's not something for us and that's the roadblocker at the point and that's most likely the most difficult roadblocker to talk about how can you change that because that's like kind of yeah this is what it is how can you change that roadblock i think for some you can of course get in the conversation okay how did you make up that the decision at one point but sometimes it's also what it is and you have to accept yeah and and that's also fine i mean at the end of the day if they are happy with the things they do then they are happy with the things they do true if they're happy with with the results of the property and they are fairly happy in life and happy within the company then then that's also fine it's also not that people should get more stress from adding revenue management to their property because that's not the goal it's not the goal to to get more stress the goal is to to increase revenue to to take the opportunities which fairly say are there during the year and also be a bit more more relaxed yeah yeah that's nice that you said it because when you were talking about it i was thinking it feels of a casino game that you have to raise a little bit and then you're taking kind of a gamble because you could say if i leave it like this i know what i get no no surprises of course i won't get the maximum but i also don't have of course like a sudden nobody book so how how how do you do you have like kind of i think the the what you say about the casino is it's it's always a good start for a conversation because it's at one point it's also a bit of risk management because raising your prices will increase risk of not selling the room that's fairly true to say however being more involved with the prices and reducing the risk to adapt quickly is also reducing the total risk yeah and that's funny because at the end of the day the higher the risk you take as a from a hotel perspective in raising your price the higher the maximum potential profit could be however the question is how much risk are you willing to take that's a good question yeah i think they're the guidance of getting more knowledge or or and being more educated having more trust in the terms they do they are willing to take slightly more risks in order to to increase the profits and also if you're more educated and you have things to help you then it's fair to say that maybe you don't even increase the risk yeah calculated at least more and more calculated risk i think that's that's the thing it's a calculated risk because you have more data you can respond faster and earlier and therefore you're reducing overall risk yeah nice nice and i'm also thinking like it shouldn't be a black or white it's not like i'm doing revenue management all year long every price every day you decide the software decides or the revenue manager decides you can also say when there's a big event i want to change something right and for the rest is that like kind of is that how it works like i can be more aggressive less aggressive more like evolved less involved it's always a thing of being how much time can you spend how much time are you willing to spend and how much control are you willing to give away because the more control you're willing to give away and control a system or control a revenue manager reduce the pricing for you because that's always also giving out control you can achieve more things by by automate more if it's set up correctly and if you control it in the correct way yeah so there are properties which say okay i see that there's an opportunity i will increase the price or i get an advice to increase the price there i'll accept it and the rest of the year i keep what it is and it's also fair to say that it's not only increasing prices because because that's i think that's the main thing what hotels think as well oh my loyal guest i'm increasing the prices and they going to be upset and loyal guests are super important and it's fair to say that you're not only increasing prices because there are opportunities to increase adr so to increase the price and there are opportunities to gain more occupancy by slightly reducing the price and i think that that especially that game it can be that at the end of the year you have the same adr but you have a higher occupancy because you increase the prices during the high season you lower them slightly during the low season you get more occupancy there you have the same occupancy in the summer for example your adr stay the same but you have more occupancy and therefore you have more revenue so like when i tell to friends that i'm into revenue management and they say okay what do you do then like yeah i'm helping hotels to increase their revenue and say oh you're the guy you are the guy we're increasing all the rates all year long and i say to them as well sometimes they're giving you a benefit as well you just like to choose the right option to go slightly more flexible exactly you have to choose the days that there's no justin bieber in the area exactly and sometimes you have to go on a sunday and you will get a lower price than you might get before because we are reacting to the demand in the market yes so i guess you as a guest yourself and because of your experience you know exactly how to book the cheapest trips right the whole hotel website mainly and then have a look on which day and i think as a guest if you are flexible when you can go yeah it's always always cheaper from a guest for sure it's always good for for from a hotel perspective because they can spread the guest out yeah exactly exactly he talked a little bit about the metrics like how to because that's an interesting thing like the adr can be the same but it's a different result like which which metrics are really can you give some examples of which metrics are relevant as a revenue management or as a hotel operator to to look at because not only revenue but at the end of the day for a hotel revenue is important and if it's for example sorry for interrupting me if it's theoretically one guest pays 100k or 10 guests pay or 100 guests pay 1k like it's the same revenue but it's a different yeah i think at that point you have multiple different factors which come in place because you have more rooms to clean at this point on the other hand if you have for example restaurant it's also important to know that if you have more guests in your hotel true higher the potential is that they spend more money within your restaurant or within your bar or at your golf club or whatever so that's also fair to say i think it's really important first of all before you go into the metrics what kind of property do i have because do i have a property with very high cleaning cost or do i have a property where my cleaning costs are okay they are under control but i have a very high extra spend of my guests yeah because that makes a lot of that makes a big difference between having one guest paying 100k or having 100 guests paying thousand that's a very big difference when you understand that art for for the most of the hotels they look into okay what's my adr what's my occupancy that's like the basic first step yeah and but also in there if you understand your property true then you can look okay how big is the influence of my adr in terms of my total revenue how big is the occupancy how big of an influence has my occupancy on the total revenue so if you have fairly high cost in cleaning rooms then maybe if you can get the same revenue by increasing your your room rate but decreasing the amount of stay then you get an overall result which might be slightly better nice the same goes the other way around and i think that's fairly important to understand what you're actually bringing to the table and what kind of property do you have before you go into the metrics because knowing your property will also decide which metrics are going to be more important for you in terms of build up towards the total revenue true and that's that's a fairly big difference again if you go completely to the basics i think a lot of properties look at adr and they look at at occupancy for me personally i would always try to break it down into day of the week because they look at it on a monthly base and it can look amazing but breaking it down into slightly smaller pieces it will give you already slightly more information when you have always the same adr by just going into let's say we have one room type and they sell for €100 and they have 70% occupancy across the year then breaking that 70% occupancy down into day of the week and in terms of months it will already tell you okay for this hundred euros i'm selling my rooms for i get a certain occupancy on those days i get a certain occupancy on those days and you actually will already see how a market responds towards your pricing nice i think that's a very easy exercise but it already gives you a lot of information about what kind of property do i have how is the market responding to the price i'm currently sending into this world and how is that reflecting in my property because if you already see okay for €100 during january february i'm having 30 occupancy that can be something and you can be fully booked during all summer and you get 70 occupancy across the year but it will tell you something about how are people responding towards my property maybe that €100 is slightly too much it can be it can also be that there are not more people willing to book anyways that's that's a potential that is something you only will know but you identify what's actually happening yeah that's really nice i love that one that you you basically triggered me that it's of course revenue management is about revenue that's clear but it's also beforehand it's kind of a strategic approach you have to look at what is my property we can like you said they have the same revenue but reduce cost because we have less guests but they stay longer instead then we have to clean less rooms and for every you know some guests some hotels maybe say i want more reviews or more short stays i don't know whatever everybody has its own mindset so it's more than just revenue it's like a strategic mindset beforehand and then you base it on the like you said you can decrease increase it can be a lot of things but it has to be strategically thought of yeah exactly and i think especially when you step into this point there is where it gets sometimes already a little bit tricky for some properties because they found this already overwhelming when you're going to break down everything and that's fine i mean it's fine that they are struggling with this and and having a helping hand on on certain points it is nice and if they are not willing to take that step at this point and they are happy in the situation they are then i think it's all also a thing of accepting that because also when you when you look into the brick of properties and it's an owner which is not the operator they are how going to say this politely they are trying to maximize the potential and the revenue of the property however if you go towards an owner operator of a slightly smaller or a family owned business it's treating that business with love with care with everything and having a good feeling about the business and being comfortable around the business and in the business basically for some of them is their life they are always there they maybe even live in the property yeah and then having that extra hustle or having that that comfortability by raising prices to in order to reach maximum revenue that cost them more than than being comfortable around the property yeah true i think that's very that's that's very important to understand as well if you if you speak to people and try to get them into revenue management is maybe not a good word but if you speak to them and try to eradicate and maybe they are willing to go into revenue management that's fairly important to understand that there are many different objectives to achieve from having a property or having a hotel true true so it's basically about creating the awareness that it's possible and then if you like it you can do it if you don't like it at least you are aware of the things that you might miss because like you said it's also about timing not only for the guest but also for the for example the property or the owner that maybe this year he had a difficult year and he doesn't want to take some risk and next year he had a great relationship with his wife and he's happy and the numbers are better then he says like let's take some risk it's also the mindset which they are currently in because if i let's say definitely if i have a lot of money if i i'm i can take a risk of €500 but if i don't have that much money true for me taking that same risk of €500 feels massive yeah and i think that's that's also the mindset people are in is also and and the comfortable situation they are in mainly in financial terms is also saying something or potentially saying something about the potential risk they want to take with the prices true and that's a feeling that's a feeling yeah for sure for sure and in this case for us it's it's important to educate them well because the more educated they are the more relaxed they are that's an idea the more control they feel they have over the things they are going to do and also that like especially that feeling of control says also something about how relaxed they are going into this future steps yeah nice one i love that quote the more control the more relaxed the more control that you said it super nicely and in regards to rune price genie like how can maybe shortly how do you guys help those hotels with the software that you have what does it do i think the first step for us is always in terms of get get comfortable with them especially when they never did something in revenue because there is a very big difference people going from one revenue management system or from a revenue manager towards another system is a different guest client profile when they are fairly new to revenue management i think you have to handle them with with a lot of care and gain trust as well a bit from our side that we know what we're doing and we are willing to take them by the hand in in order to go into the journey because it can be scary however all scary things if you have someone who guides you during your process i think i think that's scary anymore so so what we do mainly is that we try to understand actually what they trying to achieve and how is the property working and especially what i said before with with having a certain price having certain occupancies we try to identify those possibilities with with the properties and from there we can actually show them okay years potential years potential and this is what you have to give away to a system which you can control we see that a lot of people trust the system and they control from a distance but this is what you what you potentially giving away in control by controlling a system and this is the potentials we see and i think during that whole process guide them show them what they actually can improve where they can improve and and being patient because not all of them will say oh let's do a maximum price of €300 there are fairly a lot of hotels we say i don't want to go under 100 and i don't want to go above and of course then we have the conversation to go up maybe 240 or maybe 150 as a first step if you have bookings 450 the guest has arrived the guest has left they left a nice review you have a call again with them afterwards you can say okay how many guests did you have for those 50 did they not leave a nice review yeah they're fairly happy with this let's let's see if we can maybe go up to 160 170 in order to be comfortable in taking next steps in order to reach your maximum potential profit nice but it takes time yeah it takes trust not only in you guys but also in the system and in revenue management in general and that kind of stuff yeah i love that that approach nice nice and if you know this podcast is also called the future of hospitality so we talk about the future of course a lot of ai a lot of new stuff coming up so how how do you look at the future of revenue management especially for those independent hotels i think the future just started to be fair i mean independent hotels revenue management is not they are that long so there is still a lot to gain in in terms of properties but don't do anything in revenue management so i think for them the first step and that's what you see slowly already happening is that they move towards revenue management so i think that's the first step and then then you have the factor of ai and i think ai is a great thing however especially when you talk about a sensitive topic like pricing it's fair to say that people want to understand what's actually happening and i think a lot of people are still looking for a solution which give them the trust and give them the insights of the decisions so will ai completely take over i'm not very sure will it be part of a lot of things in terms of developing algorithms and developing those kind of things yes but at one point it will stick with an algorithm because an algorithm you can actually control and you know that over and over and over the same factors will be taken in consideration so it gives you also from a control perspective it gives you more control than let things go loose yeah so will ai help a lot yes will it completely take over i'm not so sure i don't think so yeah but it will it will help in developing algorithms but at the end i think especially those kind of things will mainly stick with algorithms and machine learning but but taking let's chatgpt won't take it over chatgpt won't take it over for sure and also you know i think that data becomes more and more important of course so maybe ai can for examp kind of see what kind of events are upcoming kind of see it's also you know if you have a lot of data i don't know exactly because i wasn't a revenue manager in my past but i think that if you have a lot of data that then you can tell ai what kind of things can you learn from this data and of course if it's data from two months it's not enough but if you have data from i don't know 10 years you can especially like you said you can see this is what we've seen i can do the help with that and can give you some kind of insight and again data from the past has already happened will it give an insight into the future potentially yes will it predict the future no because it already happened and i think when we were in the year before COVID we had data from 10 years in the past no one overseed covid so it cannot give you an indication of what's potentially possible in certain areas of the year yes 100 yeah because you will see a pattern will that pattern be exactly the same this year as it was at last year completely not because especially to give you a very quick example the biggest difference between the hotels we service this year compared to last year is that people book shorter before arrival we we have properties where there was the same demand in the market they had the same amount of bookings however they had a slightly lower adr that can potentially happen yeah and the reason why for some properties the adr was slightly lower was that people booked shorter before and when you move it back towards willing to take risk when you have 30% occupancy five days before arrival yeah how many hotels will have are willing to take the risk to keep the prices high in order to take the gamble yeah that they will sell out anyway because they did last year nice what will they do they will reduce risk by lowering the price yeah and i think that's something we learned this year that demand was shifting not in terms of periods but more in terms of how far before arrival do they book and there are a lot of reasons for this one of the reasons also that's fairly easy to book a room nowadays so if you're three days before arriving you decide to want to go you open booking.com or another platform you fill it in and you click which room you want and that's all true true but it's also that the guests think that it's cheaper like sometimes when i go for vacation my wife sounds like a revenue manager she knows exactly one day before the prices go down and then i say no no that was years behind it's not the thing again especially in those periods where because there is always a shift in who's in control like is the hotel in control or is the guest in control and there it's fair to say that a lot of times the guest is in control because there are still rooms available yeah and when there are rooms available i guess is in control which property they're going to choose true when we go to the formula one hotels are in control true because the demand is is outseeding the market and therefore hotels become in control in terms of the price they can ask for the property because there is an urgency so and i think what we saw last year is that that urgency was shifting slightly more towards the hotels because they had a lower occupancy compared to the years before at the same point in time and when urgency grows risk will grow and therefore people were slightly reducing the prices yeah good point will those properties learn from that this year most likely yes yeah but also that's not something yes we saw it over the years slightly decreasing but not that much so again data can give you a lot of information about a lot of things will it 100% sure predict the future no if you have a tool which can do that then please involve me because that would be super interesting but i think that's the thing use it yes use an ai tool to validate that data also yes because there are a lot of the reasons why data can be good or cannot be good so i think especially using ai to validate data is a very good thing to analyze it as well is it going to predict the future no nope yeah cool yeah you gave some good answers well i like that it's always about thinking like for yourself about the bigger picture because maybe the generation shifted younger people don't book as older people so it's not only data data data it's always you know think logically what happens in the in the world maybe more wars i don't know older people younger people new generation a lot of a lot of stuff to change so a lot of things can can have an impact i think i saw the generation shift is something it's something yeah for sure that will change i think even more in the future especially with ai how they will book and so many people are talking about how will they book you know an ai agent that will book for you and a lot of stuff that we don't know about yet and yeah we'll for sure see how it will go that keeps the future exciting as well right i mean if we can predict everything then it's not fun anymore it's going to be slightly boring as well to make a podcast about the future of hospitality anymore exactly at least think about it and yeah exactly so so tim we're almost out of time here do you have something else that you want to share it can be anything that you say like these are my last i don't know tips or words for somebody that wants to do something with revenue management learn something whatever i think the thing is you have to start to experience and and do what at one point feel comfortable i think that's the most important part and that comfortability can grow by gaining more knowledge and it's not going to directly to us of course you can go to rampartini to ask tips or have a conversation about revenue management but also speak to others i mean there are a lot of professionals in this market i think the revenue management job is growing as well because more and more people stepping into real revenue management so i think there fairly is a lot of knowledge in the market so just gain knowledge before you step in something which you're not comfortable with i think that's the most important part in a lot of totally true totally true so yeah tim thank you thank you for your insights thank you for raising the prices when i go on vacation thank you for inspiring hotels to do that and really thank you for your time no problem and thanks a lot for having me