The spark that never left

Ik ben eerst aan het verstaan voordat het verstaan is. En ik denk dat dat een heel goede conclusie is. Heel leuk te zeggen ook, want ik heb hier ook te joinen. En ik heb de operatie voor twee of drie maanden te joinen. Dishwashing, doen alles wat iedereen hier heeft gedaan. Want ik ben niet de manier die, inderdaad, wat ik net zei, zit op de chair en directt iedereen op de wereld. Welkom bij ons podcast, de toekomst van Spatiality. Ik ben je host, Arjan Ekelaboom. En vandaag is onze guest Sander Verheij, generale manager van Noobelman in Amsterdam. Sander, welkom bij ons show. Dank je wel, het is een plezier. Ja, ik ben glad te zien je. Eerst een klein beetje van Noobelman, dat is op de kanaal, hè? Het is op Leidsegracht, in de middel van de stadcentrum. Het is een heel hoge kanaal. Dus dat is heel veilig, waardoor er alleen vijf minuten op de stadcentrum gaat. Wonderig, we gaan over dat een beetje meer spelen later op. Eerst zou ik je laten introduceren. Who is Sander? Sander is 24 jaar oud. En ik zou het meteen uitleggen dat ik nog mijn Spatiality-career op de start zie. Hoewel ik in Spatiality startte, nu 10 jaar geleden, als ik 14 was. 14? 14, ja, correct. Oké, ik zal dat herinneren, want... Go ahead. In de hotel van mijn vader, eigenlijk, ik was geboren en gestuurd in de Zuid van de Nederlandse, in een stad called Waalwijk. Mijn vader had een hotel daar, met de... around 70 rooms. Sommige meetrooms, restauranten, bar, alles was daar om te leren. En ja, dat is waar het allemaal begint. Alle basis, carrying trays, wat basis over de customer service. We deden eten een veel tijd samen voor de hele hotel. Dus het was echt cool te starten van mijn carrière met mijn vader. Dat is hoe je begint als 14 jaar oud. Dat is omdat je vader... je vader hebt een hotel. Ja. Dat betekent. Go ahead. Ja, en daarom moet ik zeggen, het was een grote plezier om mijn vader in de hotel te werken. Ook vond ik het een paar jaar later. Maar ik dacht dat ik echt wil creëren mijn eigen carrière, laten we zeggen, en niet volledig volgen in zijn voetstappen. Dus ik begon ervoor te doen, zoiets werk en hospitality, restaurants, bars, cafes, alles in Brabant. Eindelijk was er alleen één keuze om hospitality te studeren. Het was mijn passie van 14 jaar oud, en ik ging direct in met de studie. Ik heb twee jaar van MHBO, dus iets tussen MBO en HBO, onder Rooi Pannen in Tilburg. En er was een connectie met de BUAS, de Breda University of Applied Sciences, waar ik voor drie jaar naar de Hire Hotel School kan gaan. Dat is het geval. Ja, dat was een mooie periode ook. Ik was veel meer motivatie op de hoge niveau dan op de hoge niveau, ik moet zeggen. En na mijn studie ben ik geïnteresseerd om iets heel anders te doen. Ik ga het zeggen voordat je gaat, want ik ga het zeggen, zodat je automatisch mocht, want de hotel in de familie mocht naar de hotelschool. En ik dacht dat er geen moment was waar je dacht dat ik misschien iets meer zou willen doen, maar dat kwam later. Dat kwam later, ik moet zeggen, ja. Ik ben heel vleugelijk aan het werken, aan het werken in de werkbedrijven, ik had mijn dad in de hotel gezegd, om ook te beginnen te studeren in de hospitality. En daar kwam de urge om te denken, hey, er zijn veel andere dingen gebeuren. En ik moet zeggen, het was ook aan het einde van de covid, waar ik zei, ik wil gewoon iets anders proberen in mijn leven, op least een keer. En ik dacht, ik zou de beste moment in mijn studie zijn, want ik heb al mijn ingesteld, mijn studie, dus ja, ik kon iets anders proberen. Ik heb een bedrijfsmanagement gedaan, een platform voor freelancers, iets helemaal anders. Het was een beetje related naar de hospitality, want ik heb wat klanten in die industrie. Maar voor de rest was het een helemaal verschillende manier om in contact met mensen, meestal op de telefoon, om iets te zetten, om ze te vervinden. Waar in de hotelindustrie welkom zijn mensen die je chooseen, voor hoe je je brandt, en niet naar ze te... Ja, de acquisition daar, laten we zeggen. Ik ontdekte snel dat het niet voor mij was, na al een maand al, meestal, maar... Niet voor mij, niet voor mij. Het is de hospitalitybusiness dat me echt attracteert. En ik wilde echt een kans geven, want dat is ook waar ik ben. Ik denk dat ik niet wil zeggen, na een maand, niets voor mij. Ik ga op de volgende challenge. Ik wil het een proper kans geven. Dus ik ben daar voor vijf maanden, en ik heb in de volgende contact met mijn vorige employer waarin ik ook m'n interesse ontdekte. En ze zeiden, waarom zou je niet terugkomen? En waarom was je employer? Wat was dat? Dat was Hotel 27 in Amsterdam. Hotel 27, dat is de stad van Amsterdam op de Don Square. Correct. Het is een heel... Het is een iconisch gebouw en een institutie bijna 27. Je kan het zo noemen. Ja, een heel unie hotel. Sleutelige hotel met 16 suites. Ranging van 45 square meter de rooms. En de grootste was 240 square meter, als ik niet verstaat. Dus een missie aan het start van de restaurant. Een heel hoge bar. En daarvoor een geweldige plek om veel te leren. Dus een heel waardige tijd daar. Dat is waar ik mijn interesse ontdekte. Dus je... de landmater vraagt je terug. Dus laat me een beetje terugkomen, want je eindde op het werk daar en we verstaat dat apart. Kan je ons over... hoe je eindde op 27? Omdat het een effect is. En ik denk dat het een institutie is. En het is mooi. Alle mensen gaan daar. De restaurant is geweldig. De bar is geweldig. Dus je eindde op daar. Kan je ons een beetje meer over dat vertellen? Dus mijn studies in de Rooi Pannen. We hebben eigenlijk een fieldtrip in Amsterdam. En een van de hotelen die we tourden was eigenlijk 27. En ja, de impressie dat ik daar was, was met mij voor de entierheid van mijn studies. En toen ik mijn studies in Breda was, had ik een andere interesse. En dat tour was zo veilig in mijn hoofd. Alle kornen. En ik was zo geimpraasd met de design en met alles. Ik dacht, well, let's go for it. En ja, het gaat. En de general manager. Ik had een heel goede bond met haar during de talk. Right after the talk, she said, well, we're going to go for it. We're going to do it together. I want you in. So I started my internship. That's how it started. And yeah, a lot of people. So what did you do at that? Because I want to go a little bit deeper into that position. Because that's really what formed me. I want to go a little bit deeper into that position. Because that's really what formed you, I guess, to what you, where you are now. So what was your daily, how did your day look like? Well, I was in the beginning, I was really shadowing the general manager in terms of everything she did. And I think that was the greatest way to start. Because I had no clue what it meant to be a general manager, what it looked like, what the responsibilities were, how the hierarchy was towards the staff as well in an organization like that. Because we had 90 people, 90 people of staff, even though it's a small hotel with 16 suites. That's relatively small indeed. I can only imagine a guest, then even demand more because it's so small. Certainly, yes. And especially since it's on Dem Square, it's so multicultural. And the variety of people you see on Dem Square, in the middle of Amsterdam, that's also the variety that you have in the hotel. In terms of everything, in terms of culture, in terms of budget as well. Some people, they save money for an entire year to spend only one night with their beloved ones while others spend money like there's no tomorrow. You can imagine that. And I think that's one of the most valuable things about hospitality, and especially in Amsterdam. There is no average guest. So also the expectations, they go all over the place. Let's call it like that. And being able to manage those expectations from all these different people in the best way possible, that's the greatest challenge we have every day in hospitality, I believe. I really started learning about that at 27. But also the responsibilities of a manager, of course, started there. General manager really put great trust in me, which I still really much appreciate. The word there is that I was the only manager in the property as an intern. So that was really special. And that could be administration, that could be scheduling, that could be running procedures, that could be training new staff members, went everywhere checking bills. The not the highest level of management task. No, but you were in the middle of it at a very young age. That's what I find so remarkable. And inspiring, I think, for a lot of people, because you don't have to go through all these levels. You can dive into the deep, which what you did, and all these responsibilities were thrown into your lab and you just grabbed them, hey, this is what I need to do and I did it. So I want to hear more about that because that is really inspiring. So you mean like the question, what do you need to do to have like... Well, you had more experience. You also had an internship in Barcelona. It's a Ritz Carlton, right? That's correct. Okay, tell me a little bit more, then we go back to 27. Yeah, that's good. So my internship in Barcelona was during my studies at Roy Pannen in Tilburg. I moved to Barcelona for a health year for the internship and that was one of the most crazy times I ever had. The best time, maybe even in hospitality still for a health year being able to... I was doing an internship in the executive club lounge there as a college, as a front desk agent, but also a bit on the FNB site. We were basically running a small hotel of 30 rooms inside a larger hotel which had almost 600 rooms. On the very highest standard, you could imagine. Of course, it's called the property. So it was also good for me to get familiar with what working for a brand meant. Because that was your first brand, right? That was... Yes, it was my first brand, yeah. And not the smallest one, I mean the Ritz Carlton. And like you mentioned, they have hundreds of rooms and they have a club area, club lounges and club rooms, club lounge. And you were responsible for that. So walk me a little bit through your daily activities at that particular property. Ja, we started the day by setting up the breakfast. It was located on the 30th floor of the building. So it had a beautiful view and it's right at the sea. It's a tower at the sea. So every day was so special to me to basically wake up with this view, prepare the breakfast for the guests. At the same time, you could have people checking in, asking for recommendations for the city because you were also their front desk and concierge agent. En they had five different buffets during the day. And for the rest, you had all the tasks that you have in a hotel, besides of the housekeeping part. So what I said, the check-in, the check-out, managing the bills. But also that concierge part was a really big part of the job since Ritz Carlton is known for its high standard of service. Of course it attaches a lot of Americans to the brand, which are always a perfect example of how you can be a great concierge. I would like to say they really would like to know everything about the city in a very expressive, inspiring way. I have to say, I was quite an introvert person first when I started working in hospitality. Oh, really? To find it quite hard to properly mingle in with people and go into the social contact, let's say like that. But that developed a lot over the years. How long did you work there? For how long? Ritz Carlton was only in the internship for six months. Six months? Oh my God. But it felt like what I'm hearing. It felt like a few years. Felt like a few years. Yeah. And I have to say all the experience I have felt as a few years. Because I think that's a good conclusion what you just mentioned that you just have to jump in on it. Step away from all the expectations that you might have about the job. Go within a bit of common sense, maybe just jump in with a clear mindset and try to learn everything. Yeah. That's possible there. Yeah. And I think if you have the right motivation and passion to learn things actually then with this mindset role. I like how you explain and how you draw that picture of the Ritz Carlton in Barcelona because just a few minutes before you mentioned that you started a career or tried a career in account management and you immediately felt this is not me. You didn't have that with the Ritz Carlton, did you? Even though you were trying to find your way in there but there was this spark inside of you that knew okay, this is what I want. Exactly. And I really have to say that's where it all started especially the spark for the luxury hospitality industry because I think that's really where you have to manage these expectations as I just managed. That's where also people really expect you to take the step forward towards them rather than a step back and just check you in and enjoy your room goodbye. That's completely like that. In order to develop myself as a person and I think that's where it's a bit underlying image of why I was motivated to learn about the industry is I wanted to develop myself as a person and I think in that high industry you're confronted with so many different people on a daily basis both internally as externally at that time because also the team itself with the colleagues that came from all over the world they only selected the best students from certain schools to be able to do the internship in the club lounge back then. So both with the colleagues as with the guests you really had to transform yourself as a person in order to manage it properly and I found it so interesting the human psychology behind it to look someone in his eyes and understand what he feels and what he might need and what he expects from a stay and on the other hand from a colleague what he or she might expect from you when you're working with him that's still what inspires me every day I have to say. And that is the spark and the essence of hospitality that is naturally inside of you and I really, really I'm glad that you just poked it out because this is what it's about. Yeah, to me it is for sure. That is for sure. So that's the Ritz-Carlton you six months in the Ritz-Carlton in Barcelona you also worked at the DoubleTree next to Central Station in Amsterdam. Yeah, there was also an issue. Tell me something about that. That was a very special period I have to say. That was in the middle of COVID. In the middle of COVID. So they were open? They were softly open. Yeah, there were still some people allowed to travel. But yeah, it was very little. The occupancy there was between 5% and 10% on average during my whole internship I think. So with a hotel of almost 600 rooms again. Yeah, that's with all the staff they did have in house they still had to maintain. It's not a challenge in terms of that. I was supposed to do a duty management internship there. And of course DoubleTree is a Hilton brand and I already had a Marriott brand. So that's actually why one of the reasons I chose it because I really wanted to compare like hey how does Marriott how is Marriott compared to Hilton and on the other hand also how is the luxury industry compared to the bit less luxury industry. It was a four star hotel as well. But it ended up being in the middle of Covid. So there was not a lot of communication with the guests and a lot to learn. So we ended up doing some maintenance in the hotel actually with the whole intern. With the whole intern crew. We painted some walls. We renovated a roof garden. And it was a very special time I have to say. I don't look back on it very negatively because it was out of everyone's hands. Oh, it's an experience. You connected with the people in a very different way. I have to say internally with staff we got so close and after everything we did we were working on the roof for a whole day basically just to renovate the garden. And you were renovating you were working on the roof renovating et cetera at the double tree. And you did that with colleagues who were also just working in the hotel normally but all of a sudden they had this extra shift because there were no guests. Exactly. So both people that were already employed there just on the payroll as well as interns we also applied for an internship at the same period. That was basically the only thing that could be done and there were some things that I could still learn and eventually I believe I have a picture of how it could be if it was really busy in terms of all the procedures and how the check-in would go there. Everything. They have a lot of restaurants as well. So now I'm not looking on looking back on it in a negative way but it was certainly very interesting. A good experience because most of your career right now because you're still very young exposed COVID and COVID is now it's five years ago since it started it lasted for a year and a half with lockdowns, lockdowns, lockdowns and I remember it because I live in the city centre of Amsterdam so I know everything about it. That's a good experience. And after that is it that when you went to 27? After that I did the internship at 27. Ja, that's correct. Go ahead, tell me indeed. So you ended up at 27. You were like the assistant to the general manager or the PA as you called it yourself. You just walked us through your daily activities. Is it also there after Rich Calton and this property 27 is independent, right? It doesn't belong to Richard. Okay, so how was that different? It was different in terms of a lot of things I have to say. You really feel that you're dependent on who's above you way more than in a larger chain hotel I would say because there you always have these standards that are there and manager can be a manager there but the standards will always count twice as hard as his own philosophy not always it depends a bit of course on the type of brand and how the brand is incorporated into the business because we franchise in some terms of way but I feel that if you work in a boutique environment the influence of the owner and the managers is of way greater value than in a larger brand and that's what was really special to me since I had a very good connection with the general manager that she also really invested in me I thought like hey this guy really suits to this concept en to my vision as well he listened to you sorry? he listened to you sorry my assumption there we go she opened up I mean that is what I like about these days times are changing I just had to talk about this with someone else that even general managers people at sea level they are opening up to the young people coming into the property and they want to hear their vision they want to learn from them sorry for interrupting but I think that is very beautiful go ahead for the rest in terms of the boutique environment of course we will always be closer in the contact with the guests after my internship I of course did the account management and I came back to the bottle department but maybe we can save that a bit as a manager I have to repeat that because it is not something that all people know what does that mean no one especially in the Dutch hospitality industry it is something very unique I can say there is only 3 hotels in Amsterdam and I think maybe a few more somewhere else in the Netherlands that does it but the bottle department was there for anything you could imagine for the guests in terms of you also had a bit of the concierge role but we also did the room service there during my time I also started implementing serving some of the dishes of the one mission to start restaurant into the suites which was a very big challenge but a very cool addition to being a butler there as well being able to serve it like that but also the traditional things you could imagine like ironing or washing clothes for guests tidying up the room folding clothes, packing luggage everything like that was also included wonderful so after that why did you leave 27 well I completed my internship there and after I also wrote my thesis at 27 while I remained working part time then I completed my studies and then was the moment that this part came up the urge to try something else which I'm also not ashamed of I'm very glad no no no, I mean that says a lot about you I mean and I recognize that hey I'm done here I used to have I'm old enough for that when I look back I've got a three year cycle I either leave before three years are over or I stay a lot longer that's that's how I like to express my career always a little bit it should be an exponential growth so you could grow in a certain way in your position but if you feel that there's no exponential growth to it and maybe that's a bit exaggerated but I really want to look a step ahead always like hey I can be there in the coming year or if I really do my best and I go for it 100% then yeah could also be something else and I think then that grows a bit naturally as well so yeah I'm very glad to be still this young being in this position but that passion for that that really came during my first internship of it's called and it never left that's the moment that I wanted to try something else but that's beautiful try something again like I said you need to try and now I think that's an interesting story in itself cause then you applied for this position at the nobleman how did that go? yeah that's correct I started looking for something else I was not actively looking for another job because it had to be a really nice one in order to have it even better as the head of the butter department because I was really enjoying it at 27 as well but it came on my path the general manager position at the hotel the nobleman with the owner and the concept suits my vision this could be a really cool place to work so I just went for it I sent a motivation letter to get over my CV and within one minute after replying the owner Niels Sanberg he gave me a call I've never experienced something like this I also found it super strange after one minute I had him on the phone so I was a bit shocked but it was really cool we were doing the application for this position I have several people that I'm talking with right now and I would love to include you in the round so let's go for it next week I said well let's go for it next week I went for the talk of course I immediately had a very good connection at least from my side that's how it felt it's a very unique concept we can dive into that a bit later but I was doing the talk with him I was feeling very comfortable I heard about the job and I was super excited Niels was telling me well you are quite young I'm not really sure if I have the trust which again I can fully understand because I am very young and my experience is also not that broad that you say like hey we're going for it and I'm 100% sure so he said to me well I'll think about it for a few days and I will come back to you within 3 days I think it was that's where it started and then I went home I was in the train he sent me a text right after the talk I think it was half an hour after the talk and he said well I think the connection was really good we had a good click so I thought why not let's go for it and then he already sent me the offer and that also pinpointed for me like hey okay this is the place I have to go for it because I like to communicate in this way as well don't think about it for 100 times of course if you have a lot of other good candidates go for it go for it if you feel the connection is there and you had a good talk just do it did he ever tell you obviously he saw your qualities but did you ever talk about it later later on hey it was really short how did you do that why did you do that I think we did not talk about it explicitly anymore but I think it's just to conclude that he really felt that the connection was there and he's young as well he's 33, if I'm not mistaken 33, 34 and of course I'm also very young everything is already going very well before I joined in terms of gas satisfaction, operations in terms of HR in terms of budget in terms of de good level he's so motivated to improve it even more which also really stood out to me I'm not looking for someone that has been in the industry for 30 years with a lot of experience that is going to tell me how to do certain things I want to have someone young, join the team who has his own vision that we can do it together in some sort of way De noobelmijn, het is een goed gekke hotel aan de kanel Skijzersgracht, zoals je gezegd, is een relatief klein bedrijf, zelfs kleiner dan 27, veel minder ruimte. Dus het is heel, ik zou het zeggen, intimaal. Ja, ik denk dat het intimaal is... Vertel me meer over je dagelijksactiviteiten en het hotel zelf. Dus mensen kunnen een klere foto hebben van wat het lijkt. Ja, dus, zoals ik gezegd, we zijn op de locatie van Leidse Gracht. Leidse Gracht, sorry, extra Keijzersgracht. No worries at all. No worries at all. We have 13 rooms. And all of our rooms, they are dedicated to one of the noobelmen of Dutch history. Of course, that's way more, we chose 13. You only chose 13. So they all have their own theme. And the storytelling, that's what makes the hotel really special. First of all, we're located in a very old building of 1663. There's marble, still original marble on the floors on the ground floor and the first floor. It used to belong to a French marble trader, the building. So when the first moment you enter, you directly involve yourself into something really old. I should have stepped in. I mean, I passed it millions of times on my walks through Amsterdam. And I remember seeing it so many times, but I never stepped foot in. I will do that the next time though. Go on. Please do so. We have 13 rooms, so indeed a very small property. We don't have a restaurant nor a bar. So I'm fully focused on the hotel site for now. Although I'm also very interested in F&B. I love F&B to be honest. But yeah, we're so intimate and small. The storytelling, let's come back to that. It's everywhere. When you're at the reception, we have a booklet with a story about all the noblemen. When you enter the rooms, we will always guide you to the room, which is quite a standard in luxury hospitality of course. But we stop on the first floor because right there we have a huge painting with all the 13 noblemen on it. We always stop with the guests and say like, hey, this is our story. That's your noblemen. That's your guy. That's called it like that. He was the inventor of the submarine or Rembrandt Varein. He was the painter of the Night Watch. I'm going to proceed right now with you to the room. In the room, you have a lot of details that also refer back to the noblemen. So the lighting, closets of curiosities. When you open the TV, we have a whole introduction movie of how the owner together with the designer created the hotel. So all the furniture, all the lighting as well. Everything is antique in the hotel or is handmade for the hotel. So that was also the vision of Niels of the owner that it should be timeless, the concept. Because you could design a hotel that lasts for 10 or 15 years and then it gets outdated. But antique and noblemen in the history has been here for hundreds of years already. So why would there be a reason to have it outdated in the coming 50 or 60 or 100 or 300 years even. So that was a bit of the idea, a bit of sustainable idea as well of course. The quality of all the furniture. Of course it's antique but it's really good because it has been here already for so many years. But especially that storytelling is what really speaks to people. Because also these noblemen have a great relation to the city. We have the brothers trip who were weapon traders. They have a huge, used to have a huge home on the Cloveniesburg wall in Amsterdam. A very wide property with huge cannons on top that depicted their wealth back then. Of course Rembrandt van Rijn, he lived in the city. There's a statue of Spinoza, which is one of our noblemen. So there's also a lot of historical relations to the city with the concept. And the unique design and the intimate setting, that's what really attracts people here. It's really good. About yourself, what kind of leader do you want to be in this industry? What are your aspirations? Ja, it's good to call my aspirations because I'm still developing every single day. And I think everyone will be even if you already have 30 years of experience. But still, I think that's maybe one of the cool things that I also realize that I still have to learn a lot. I'm not the guy that steps into a property and directly sits on the chair and say hey. We do this like that and I think we could improve there. So you have a look how we can fix that. En I think our ex-prime minister, Mark Rutte, said it yesterday on the NATO. And it's not that I'm a particular fan of the whole situation. But seek first to understand before being understood. En I think that that's a very good conclusion. Very nice saying as well because I also joined here and I joined the operations for two or three months. Dishwashing, doing everything that everyone did here. Because I'm not the guy that just indeed what I just said sits on the chair and directs everyone everywhere. I want to be the type of leader that inspires people by practice. That's a bit common sense. You always want to show your best version and want people to follow that. But in order to achieve that, and I think being young, working with young people is very nice in that regards. Because it's just easier to level with people. You know what's going on in their private lives. They want to go for a party on Friday. You can relate to that. I'm also still young and you can just be very honest to me. En I want to be a very honest leader that says to his stuff like hey, I'm here to learn a lot in this new position I'm going into. I'm going to join you for three months in the operations full time. I will give it my best. You will see what you think from me. And yeah, that's where we start. We don't start from any other point. That's I think where every relationship should start from manager to we call our team ambassadors. So that's the type of leader we would like to be and also would like to remain. Wonderful. Sounds good to me. About the hotel, that is probably the end of our talk. There's a new hotel coming, right? There is a new hotel coming. Can you tell me a bit about that? I can't tell you too much about it. But I have been there today for the second time and it's a hotel with 42 rooms. So it's three times bigger than this one. But we will try to get into the same concept as we have right now. The sister of Niels also has a hotel in the Amsterdam City Centre, hotel The Craftsman. Oh, the kind I know then. Which is very much related to Hotel Noblen, of course, which Niels started two years after Michelle 3. But indeed, there's a lot of new things going on as well. And it's going very fast because I've only been here for six months since December. En nu is er al een nieuwe opportunity. En natuurlijk zijn de mensen hier allebei. Ik kan het alleen imagineren. Je wordt op een grote hotel gebouwd waar je alleen moet... Nou, doe je werk, zoals ze zeggen. Want je bent zo goed ontwikkeld in zo'n lange tijd. Dat is waar ik hier ben. En je bent responsabel op alle levels. En je weet elke single detail van het hotel. Je bent jezelf in een goede leader. Dat is wat ik hier heb. Dat is een geweldige compliment. Ik hoop het. Ik vind het echt leuk. Ik vind het echt leuk. Ik vind het echt leuk. Ik vind het echt leuk. Wat is misschien een advies dat je kunt geven aan mensen die want te starten, career in hospitality of misschien studenten uit de hotel school of uit de hotel schools? Kan je ze misschien 1 of 2 stukjes of advies uit jezelf geven? Ja, ik denk dat ik wat ik heb gegeven over de leadership, niet denk dat als je de hotelmanagement studie is, dat je een hotelmanager kunt zijn in de eerste seconde, omdat je de papier in je pakket hebt, zoals dat. Dat is niet hoe het werkt. Je moet continu als jezelf in alle laagjes van het hotel involgen in order te worden respecteerd. Ja, ik denk dat dat een goede lezen is. En niet voor jezelf vervormd, want het werkt hard. Hospitaliteit is gekomen om hard te werken. En je moet er niet voor zijn. Maar als het de keuken is dat je een aantal uur per week werkt, moet je het wel geven en je komt naar huis met geweldig energie. Dat is een goede signatie. Dat is wat ik altijd had in een aantal positieën en in een paar een beetje minder. Maar je moet ervaring voor zorgen dat je niet voor jezelf vervormd kan. En ook niet persoonlijke feedback van de gasten. Als ik een product zou zetten, een mooie pen, dat is het makkelijk, altijd natuurlijk. En als je het niet leuk vindt, ga ik het niet persoonlijk doen. Want ja, het is gewoon een pen. En misschien is het niet leuk voor de design. Maar als je een service voor iemand te geven, en iemand zegt je, hey, ik vind het niet leuk hoe dit gaat. Ik denk dat de service hier heel slecht is. Je hoogte en hoogte is niet goed. Dan is het echt makkelijk om het persoonlijk te doen. Want eigenlijk is het persoonlijk. Maar niet om het persoonlijk te doen. Ik denk dat dat is waar de grootste groep is. En dat is het grootste advies. Want als je het persoonlijk zou doen, dan zou je automatisch een excuses komen voor jezelf. Zoals, dit gast. Hij doet niet mijn geluid, maar ik doe het altijd zo. Dus waarom niet? Maar als je het reflecteert, als je een pen zou zetten, dan zou de design niet goed genoemd zijn. Dan moet ik de design in dit en dit in die manier proberen. En je kunt ook jezelf schrijven. En dat is waar mensen een beetje in soms zijn. Maar om zo te kunnen doen en om jezelf op te openen voor dat, ik denk dat dat waar de groep komt. De exponentiale groep. Wonderf. Laten we eind met dit. Sander, bedankt voor het zijn op ons show. En geef ons je ingeid en je experiences. Wat een welkomst. Het was een plezier.